They say if you give a man a fish, he will eat it for a day,
but if you teach them how to fish, he will eat it for a lifetime.
Showing you how to fish, so that you become an independent trader working with market generated information and with the ability to stay in the present and work on present information is what the Vtrender trading room is all about.
So the one reason you should NOT join the Vtrender Trading Room is if you are looking for tips and get rich quick schemes.
You should however think of joining, if you are looking for valid working strategies to trade the market , of the kind, which will last you a lifetime.
We have a great performance record, thanks to the wonderful trading strategies we use, but the vast majority of people who choose the Vtrender trading room, choose it, because we are the only forum in the country today, which can walk you through a trade from concept to initiation to closing with the reasons explained.
We are about live analysis and working with live information. We do not do post-mortems and elaborate weekly reports sent over nonworking hours which are of little use to anyone.
Trading is all about being in the moment and ready to act on the information which the market presents an opportunity. The Vtrender trading room is all about showing you how to respond to the opportunity which presents itself. We have unique strategies which respond to the major moves of the markets. We do not believe in putting the entire market in one strategy or fitting it into a box because the markets are too dynamic to be adapted to any one strategy or to be fit into a box.
No one can make money on the buying and selling of others.
But if you could position yourself with strategies which work, a lifetime of opportunity waits for you
If you believe in exploiting the full extent of the opportunity available we have a training library for you to train yourself and be ready for whatever the market throws at you and we also have live analysis using the same strategies discussed in the training library that you can see for yourself how real traders trade every day.
Indeed, experience is the biggest teacher and the best learning happens when concepts meet execution, so that the learning becomes cemented for life and permanent.
Now you do this every day, over a period, you have created a new trader inside of you, one who is ready to take on whatever the market is throwing at it.
For that you would also need to give the Market TIME.
Most people overestimate what they can do in a month, and under-estinate what can be achieved over a period of one year with consistent efforts.
Infact, the markets would be around, a year from now, 10 years from now, 50 years too.
Question is would you be around to trade them?
The details of the #AMA in the Trading Room on 23rd June 2020
Shai: @everyone, since the market is quiet, we will do an open AMA session from 10.15 am to 10.45 am today. Ask me anything you want on MarketProfile, OrderFlow and the charts. LIve from 10.15 to 10.45, bring along your questions
Govind : #AMA – Shai, you mentioned that you saw some LT players at the top in BNF y’day and also that that zone was important from a 3 month comp perspective. Where you referring to the selling tail from March 18th and/or something more there?
Chandu : #AMA shai hw to do positional trading using mp, wat ref levels v hav to observe , sometimes even value is higher stock is flling wen i enter trades fr swing ., hw to rectify those ?
Shai : Into the #AMA please use this hashtag #AMA so we can scroll through the questions quickly
Nagaraj : #AMA Shai, how do you prepare for a trading day and what is your advice to us to keep ready before the start of the day
Nagaraj : *how
Rajesh : #AMA some times in trend days COT values mislead entries…in such situation how to get confirmation for entry without cot?
Sanjeet : #hi shai any view on c period…for last 10 days C time period always gives opposite trend/trade
Nishant : highest no of trades so far 1617 in the last five minutes.
KK : booked 10360..Iceberg stays
Shai : Its’ avg 666 contracts per minute , the number of the beast – (10:03) MJ : Shai: Like COT has range nos. Anything specific for Vo/sec?
Shai : A 3 month balance – (10:14) Govind : #AMA – Shai, you mentioned that you saw some LT players at the top in BNF y’day and also that that zone was important from a 3 month comp perspective. Where you referring to the selling tail from March 18th and/or something more there?
MJ: Woah! thanks chief.
Shai: if you zoom out from April, it is visible. Also, for me 21900- 22000 is the vwap of the March selling in BNF. a more important longer-term ref (not intra ofc)
Ashok82: #AMA Shai, On June 3rd, you said “my #MarketProfile says we stay at 10110F and form a base into tom”. Is it based on unbalance to balance?
Shai : nothing changes in #MP- follo0w the same rules of bias, look for acceptance and rejection as we discussed in last webinar- (10:15) Chandu : #AMA shai how to do positional trading using MP, wat ref levels v have to observe , sometimes even value is higher stock is filling wen i enter trades for swing ., how to rectify those ?
Parul : #AMA Shai, which strategy do you suggest from the MarketProfile setup for a beginner to trade ? Also, what to see in OF as a trigger for that strategy. Looking for something which although does not throw up more trades but is more consistent.
Rajesh : #AMA#how does day report comes with buy ,sell levels…..does it based on only HVN.LNV,SINGLE PRINTS,POC,SPIKE….OR ANY OTHER specific method for exact buy sell levels
Shai : Go through prev day notes and the OF charts with a MP chart open- (10:17) Nagaraj : #AMA Shai, how do you prepare for a trading day and what is your advice to us to keep ready before the start of the day
Shai : COT is just a confirmation tool. You won’t get misled if you are watching IB and IS- (10:17) Rajesh : #AMA some times in trend days COT values mislead entries…in such situation how to get confirmation for entry without cot?
Shai : Avoid trades with show IB and negative COT or IS with positive COT
Shai : C is meant to do exactly this :)- (10:18) Sanjeet : #hi shai any view on c period…for last 10 days C time period always gives opposite trend/trade
Praveen : what that mean when we get this combination
MJ : #AMA shai how do you manage to stay so calm always?
Sylvester : #AMA Shai i have heard the terms “Extension Handle” and 80% rule. I am not able to find references to them in training library. What do they refer in OF ?
Sanjeet : #AMA..any input on risk management
Shai : Yes one of the higher teachings of MarketProfile will give you that certainty- (10:22) Ashok82 : #AMA Shai, On June 3rd, you said “my #MarketProfile says we stay at 10110F and form a base into tom”. Is it based on unbalance to balance?
Shai : The rules of Bias in Market Profile with confirmation from IB / IS – (10:22) Parul : #AMA Shai, which strategy do you suggest from the MarketProfile setup for a beginner to trade ? Also, what to see in OF as a trigger for that strategy. Looking for something which although does not throw up more trades but is more consistent.
Shai : 3 rules of Bias- a) Know the open, b) watch the vwap c) respond at the range extension
Shai : All of it put together to form 1 neat template – (10:23) Rajesh : #AMA#how does day report comes with buy ,sell levels…..does it based on only HVN.LNV,SINGLE PRINTS,POC,SPIKE….OR ANY OTHER specific method for exact buy sell level
KK : the days with open drive, just trade those, if less trade, more consistent, unless it goes back through those,.
Shai : 🙂 – (10:25) MJ : #AMA shai how do you manage to stay so calm always?
K2dt : #AMA chief how to not get swayed by emotions when u make a lot in a day?
Shai : You can control yourself , but you cannot control the outside. Manage what you can manage
Uttam : today’s chat is gold 🙂
Chandu : #AMA in somedays v see IB, IS with 1L cot 2 ,3 times in such case do v need to consider big buyer/seller in all which one v have to consider, do v have consider all r ?
Shai : extension handle is a move away from IB which is 1st 60 mins of trade. Has to be confirmed with huge volumes- (10:25) Sylvester: #AMA Shai I have heard the terms “Extension Handle” and 80% rule. I am not able to find references to them in training library. What do they refer in OF ?
KK : #AMA Shai, in a positive bias day, how do we know, the day low has come post VWAP break, like today, I was waiting to go all in at 11230/11240 for long, but it didn’t come and there were not heavy greens too at the lows. Some reds stuck, but not that much
Ashok82 : #AMA Shai, What does P or b profile indicate?
Shai : 80% rule is a movement which comes back into a previous VA and goes from one end to the other end and has a probability of doing so 80% of the time and referred to as such- (10:25) Sylvester : #AMA Shai I have heard the terms “Extension Handle” and 80% rule. I am not able to find references to them in training library. What do they refer in OF?
Shai: we have a note in the welcome kit sent. A must read- (10:25) Sanjeet : #AMA..any input on risk management
Sylvester : Thanks Shai
Shai : https://vtrender.com/risk-management-on-calls/
Sanjeet : Thank you shai
Neeraj : #AMA- what is minimum capital required to trade in trading room Shai..?
Shai : have a plan, follow a process. It’s not diff when process and markets are clear. Avoid trading if there is a gap in either or both – (10:28) K2dt : #AMA chief how to not get swayed by emotions when u make a lot in a day?
Bommareddy : #AMA COT Range numbers plz
Shai : Avoid trades which show IB and neg COT or IS with positive COT- let it slide. The market will give other opportunities next few minutes – (10:29) Chandu : #AMA in somedays v see IB, IS with 1L cot 2 ,3 times in such case do v need to consider big buyer/seller in all which one v have to consider, do v have consider all r ?
Shai : P is short covering profile and b is long liquidation. These are end of day patterns – (10:31) Ashok82 : #AMA Shai, What does P or b profile indicate?
Chandu : #ama how do v find which day is forming any further studies v have to do
Rajesh : #AMA#DOES 30 MIN POC is very important to take decision?
Neeraj : #AMA- how you identify a LLT…what amount of volume generally we consider that this a LLT…?
Shai : Minimum is decided by your broker, not us. But to trade, make sure you have capital which is yours and not borrowed from friends, banks etc. and the size you trade should be comfortable for you not get shaken if the market goes against your position for a few minutes – (10:33) Neeraj : #AMA- what is minimum capital required to trade in trading room Shai..?
Rajesh : #AMA3DOES 30 MINUTE cot is also important…to analyze trend?
Shai : COt is a dynamic number , but for the current scenario anything neat 1L COT is a game changer- (10:33) Bommareddy : #AMA COT Range numbers plz
Shai : yes watch D and E periods for extensions and trend days- (10:36) Chandu : #ama how do v find which day is forming any further studies v have to do
Shai : depends on your time frame of trade – (10:36) Rajesh : #AMA#DOES 30 MIN POC is very important to take decision?
Vishnu : shai we are in the iceberg zone . Ping-Pong play going on. if we stay quiet some time here with positive cots means iceberg players out with his positions. am i right?
Chandu: # AMA what is iceberg significance shai?
Shai: LLT again is a dynamic number. It is the weight of one entity against the market. So in a thin low volume market even 1L qty is an LLT, but in a highly liquid market a 5L qty may not be 1
Parul : #AMA Shai from one your answers to a previous question, if the 5 minute chart shows IB and positive COT, we can take a buy trade and vice versa ? Any threshold of COT numbers we are looking at?
Shai: No, restrict COT to 5 mins – (10:37) Rajesh: #AMA3DOES 30 MINUTE cot is also important…to analyze trend?
Shai : Iceberg is an Orderflow concept of a big player who has identified a zone to distribute – (10:39) Chandu : # AMA what is iceberg significance shai?
Shai : yes- (10:40) Parul : #AMA Shai from one your answers to a previous question, if the 5 minute chart shows IB and positive COT, we can take a buy trade and vice versa ? Any threshold of COT numbers we are looking at ?
Shai : Anything abv 40K is a good COT
Shai : I’ll take 2 more questions, before we round off
Shai : Good questions everyone
Shai : we will also have a webinar this Thursday at 08.30 pm, on the inner workings of an Orderflow chart. Don’t miss it
Rajesh G : #ama are we into second phase of the market as per stedlemaer
Dhananjayan : Shai #AMA, we had one LLT at 10000 in Jun futures, so what do we read abiout it?
Uttam : awesome +100 – (10:43) Shai : we will also have a webinar this Thursday at 08.30 pm, on the inner workings of an Orderflow chart. Don’t miss it
Himanshu : I did not have to ask question – but not got further clarified
Chandu : #AMA shai wer v have observe these imbalance lines significance..,
Himanshu : Kudos buddies – Good questions really
Shai : I think we go to 11400 – (10:43) Rajesh G : #ama are we into second phase of the market as per SteidlMayer
MJ : Shai options writing using MP. please in one of your webinars.
Swapnil : @Shai – timeframe for 11400?
Rajesh G : thanks shai
Vishnu : +100 shaiii
Shai : imbalances abv or below values areas only , better if outside composites- (10:43) Chandu : #AMA shai wer v hav observe these imbalance lines significance..,
K2dt : +100 chief thanks
Shai : 10100 SL for now , not confirmed yet, read morning notes. TF- july/ early aug- (10:44) Swapnil: @Shai – timeframe for 11400?
Shai: Awesome Guys- with that we close and go back to the markets. If I missed any questions, please repost
Our Performance with MarketProfile, the awesome COT and with lots of Discipline
We get a lot of questions on email as well as all the inquiry number we have on our website, ( we’ve closed voice support as volume was high) on what is our performance and off-late because of the nature of the market and the higher VIX we’ve got even more questions on how we have managed to tide over the volatility, how our system has run and how we have managed to apply the concepts and the knowledge we have to making money in the markets
First things first, we’ve had an awesome time trading the volatility and it’s been an extremely profitable and rewarding time, not just for me but for a whole bunch of traders who trade alongside me, live in the Vtrender Trading Room.
Whilst most other people have struggled and generally lost money in the markets in these past three months of volatility our team has excelled, and we’ve generated anywhere between 50 to 150% returns of our capital in these past three months. Now I know a lot of people would not like to believe that, because the human mind does not accept things which are beyond the comprehension of the limited understanding they place upon themselves, so this post is an effort only to minds which are open and ones which are ready to see possibility.
But first, a bit of a background
In early Feb I put on Twitter a message mentioning 1% risk per trade and 1% return to be worked for as a minimum. Both percentages on the capital employed for trade
That 1 day in Feb.
As you would imagine the minds with limited beliefs jumped to troll, because it was beyond the comprehension of their existence and the world they surround them selves in.
So I decided to transfer funds to an existing dormant account and show the process with a small capital to prove to all how it could be done. Now I trade with a Capital of INR 75,00,000 and it was very difficult for me to trade again with INR 10,00,000. But a message had to be sent and I set off.
And this below is the starting capital of INR 10,00,000. There was an additional 10k balance pending there for some reason but it is alright.
Listed below is the performance in the past three months.
I trade mostly in options and all trades have been taken in the options- weekly expiry and on an intraday scale( very few are BTST and STBT)
We’ve gone from averaging about two to four trades a day to about 8-14 when the VIX was at the highest around 70-80 and all these trades are documented against the expiry and a single strike could have multiple trades against it.
Because of the sheer number of trades it’s not possible to document all of them over the past three months but the effort over here is just to show you how applying a system and applying it with a known risk of 1% which means on this account of 10 Lac rupees there was not a single trade which was meant to lose more than ₹10,000 in that one instance . This process is explained at -https://vtrender.com/risk-management-on-calls/
We choose our trades accurately and we did really well and there have been multiple examples where one particular trade with the risk of about 10,000 returned about 80 or ₹90,000 quickly and within the space of the hour just because we knew the bias of the trade correctly through the market profile and we were interpreting the progress of the trade through the COT and we could hang in there and allow the trade to workout .
And the Numbers!
in the sheet there are also examples of trades that have failed as you could see against the negative number of the strike. I make losses even after 15 years of being in the markets and it is alright to do so. Every loss gives you a lesson and a reason to improve and come back better. It eventually is the reason why you become a better trader and make bigger profits.
And the Point is
That with the capital of, as little as 10 Lac rupees you can be profitable in derivatives trading if you have a system to follow with proper risk management and have the discipline to implement it.
You can be profitable over a lifetime.
Lots of people say “price is King” and “price always pays” which is partly right. But I say to you what I learned from a fellow trader in my room and an extremely good trader himself – Jitender – Discipline Bhagwan Che!
Our system was tested up and down in these 3 months and we triumphed through our discipline of process and not just with 1 or 2 or 10 trades mind you, but several.
The Other Point being
I’ve never been the guy, who posts screenshots because we live in a world and time where it is not just enough to know, it is important to know how.
All these trades in the past three months have been taken live and in a community of over 300 plus active traders all logged in with me live every single session from 9:00 AM to 3:30 PM .
They’ve seen the reasons for taking these trades, they’ve traded with me on these trades and they have made profits with me on these trades.
and unlike the pundits on Twitter who trade with a capital of about ₹50,00,00,000 ( making money on higher amounts is very easy) and with leverage and show you all those screenshots and no method or process we explain everything including adopting the right bias at the start of the day and showing you how to change as the market unfolds, all live.
And the final point is
As you can see at the very bottom we made an 85% return or a profit of about 8.5 Lac rupees in a period of three months which is 60 working days less all the Holidays we ever had in between so in about 50 days we’ve made about 8.5 Lac rupees .
Do the math.
It is more than 1% per day
This is not an advertisement for people to come and join the Vtrender Trading room.
Generally, we do not put performance reports out, because every time we do, we had a lot of people come and join us for the trades.
We are not a tip service, but a program for active traders. We are not suited for novices or people cutting their teeth in trading, but we stand for the seasoned, sophisticated intelligent traders who are not new to Futures and Options and can understand complex models and that everything is a part of the larger whole.
We do not want people to join us, to know “buy at this price” and “sell at this place” (the few who do , we do not renew them) .
Anyway, you would not be able to trade profitably in the market with someone else’s buy and sell.
You can never make money on the buying and selling of others
You need to know how, you need to know why, you need to know the place, the bias at the start of the day, you need to know what system is being followed .
The market would reward people who know a system and are following a process and are disciplined enough to follow it completely
Discipline Bhagwan Che!
I’m going back to trade with my full account size from Monday and it would not be possible for me to produce results on a 10L model again.
I have done what I had to and made a point I wanted to.
We do have a program for traders who want to grow and generally want to elevate themselves to a higher level. It’s meant for a certain group of people and is behind a Paywall, so we can attend to the business of trading peacefully without the trolls.I do it because some one taught me the proper way to trade and I have to give back what I know, to clear the “debt”
I give my 100% there everyday and hold nothing back from my people. Only you know what you lose out on, by not being a part of it.
If you want to know more visit – https://vtrender.com/trading-room/ or whatsapp Manoj on 9284331270
Update dated May 1st
I will be updating this post with trades we have taken in the Vtrender Trading Room. These trades are measured on a virtual account of INR 10,00,000.
The trades are a sum total for the month and represent all the opportunities which the markets presented to us and which we have taken advantage of .
Details given below month wise.
Month wise summary
We will continue to update the performance for the rest of the year in the space below.
As in Life so in Markets
I have always believed that the markets and nature are very close and in fact the markets are nothing but the thoughts, views, actions and perspectives of a lot of people across the world as they look at it through different angles.
In many ways, the market is like a sphere. It can take in all the available shapes and sizes and in the context of the market, it takes in all available views and actions.
Each one believes and looks at a sphere and thinks that they have the perfect view and are ready to act on it but very few know that the view is not a complete one. And that there is another side to it.
In markets you have to act on the information available and those who do that at the right time are the ones who succeed.
‘Cos when the information is available to all , the edge is lost.
So when people act on the information they have, there are different dimensions to this reality so in this constant mix of thoughts and beliefs and perceptions and actions, we have a lot of money circulating which is what the markets are and which is what makes the market what it is
The 4 stages in a Trader's Life
There are 4 stages all of us go through as we evolve and are a part of this process of thoughts, ideas and action.
Everything has steps. Everything has a process and everyone goes through the process.
This is at the start of a Traders’s Journey and in many ways is similar to a Birth Phase/ Toddler Phase .
This is the time you are in survival mode, dependent on an environment around you to survive.
If you have a good support system around you then you move firmly to expressing your ideas, thoughts and actions.
This is the time you express to the process your views and beliefs and trade off them.
Survival is an early phase in every trader’s life where he is solely expressing all that he has learn’t from his first support system at Initiation.
This is the second phase of a trader’s journey and can be compared to a phase between age 5 to age 25 where he is exposed to outside learning and is now learning also through his mistakes .He gets to know himself better in this phase.
In many ways this is a trader, who now understands more of the market and has gone beyond the simple few things he learn’t earlier.
He is experimenting with new systems and understanding more concepts.
He is also failing but is also making a point to learn and is learning bigger and newer things.
At this stage, he has lived, breathed and experimented with all that he learn’t in the Survival mode and is now ready with changes to his strategy.
For real growth to happen in a trader’s Like he has to live through this Phase. There is no way he can escape this phase. The only escape is to the higher level of Integration.
This is a Phase where our Trader is confident and can be compared to a phase in Life we call Reproduction where you have gone through Birth and Growth, learn’t lessons and now able to pass on those lessons to your offspring.
Integration is a Time when you put everything together .
You understand now the purpose of everything. In many ways it is the opposite of Survival.
Survival goes outside and Integration comes Inside.
In the process of Integration, you are now fully organised. Once you have gone through this organisation of not just your beliefs and thoughts, but your entire process you are now ready to move to phase 4 which is Transcendence .
This is the phase where you have moved to a higher level and now realize that you are independent of the process and control it to an extent that you are now in a new reality.
At this stage you are independent of the process and can control it anytime, anywhere.
Things just fall in place for you.
You can anticipate and see things clearer and better than ever before.
Transcendence is to understand the process so clearly that you now are in a new reality.
These are the 4 phases in a Trader’s Life and if you complete then fully and cleanly you do not have to go to Phase 1 which is Survival again.
There are many people in Phase 2. There are still more who fail at Phase 2 and have to go back to Phase 1 of Survival again.
People who manage Phase 2 can go to Phase 3 where they will be challenged at a higher level.
A minuscule amount of people are at Phase 4 – Transcendence where Trading is Bliss.
The cycle has to be lived and has to be completed.
Which Phase are you in?
What is this term called Orderflow? and how does knowing it help my trading?
Orderflow simply means reading the demand and supply side of the market.
Because it is read live and based on current actual traded volumes of the market, we have what are called Orderflow charts.
Orderflow replicates the transactions taking at the exchange on your chart and can show you real time the actual demand and supply at the exchange.
A live reading of an Orderflow chart is the best way to understand the market activity or read the “Now” . This has to be contrasted against charting techniques which show what has happened in the past.
The order-flow is the present- the developing present. It is the “now”
The video below should explain more.